First, I would argue that it isn't independent music that's dead, it's just that the Fugazi/Dischord attitudes of what independent music should be have fallen out of favor. Perhaps because it's an ideal that few could live up to.

Second, I would also argue that today's popular independent acts aren't nearly so difficult or incompatible with mainstream tastes. If the Cult was popular, why not the Arcade Fire? Not knocking the quality of their music (even though I don't really care for it), but I don't hear anything about it that would keep it from being commercially successful in this day and age. Maybe ten years ago perhaps.

Third, I've long pondered whether “indie rock” as we think of it actually exists. Reading chronicles of earlier times like “The Velvets To the Voidoids” and “Our Band Could Be Your Life,” it seems to be that the so-called “indie” forebearers were just unrelated cult bands, each inspired by their own idea of what punk rock was and each with differing attitudes toward the commercial mainstream. I feel these notions of what's indie and what isn't are mostly myths (i.e. you must sound lo-fi and crappy, you must avoid mainstream success, you must write songs about certain subjects) created by generational misinterpretations or the human tendenacy to lump in completely unrelated things.

Finally, a friend of mine once made a point that few musicians talk about selling out these days because a) that's considered to be a ludicrous, hypocritical “Generation X” thing that long ago became subject to parody and b) everybody wants to sell out anyway. One could argue that it's harder than ever to be a working musician these days, what with each and every market you can think of being uber congested, and that people have simply chosen to live comfortably (or, rather, strive to a point where they could quit their dayjobs) over some vaguely defined morals that the herd mentality made prominent in the first place.

Anyway, good piece and right on with Kimya Dawson. If Juno hadn't existed, thousands (like me) would never have been exposed to her wonderful music. Such is the nature of the beast.

First, I would argue that it isn't independent music that's dead, it's just that the Fugazi/Dischord attitudes of what independent music should be have fallen out of favor. Perhaps because it's an ideal that few could live up to.

Second, I would also argue that today's popular independent acts aren't nearly so difficult or incompatible with mainstream tastes. If the Cult was popular, why not the Arcade Fire? Not knocking the quality of their music (even though I don't really care for it), but I don't hear anything about it that would keep it from being commercially successful in this day and age. Maybe ten years ago perhaps.

Third, I've long pondered whether “indie rock” as we think of it actually exists. Reading chronicles of earlier times like “The Velvets To the Voidoids” and “Our Band Could Be Your Life,” it seems to be that the so-called “indie” forebearers were just unrelated cult bands, each inspired by their own idea of what punk rock was and each with differing attitudes toward the commercial mainstream. I feel these notions of what's indie and what isn't are mostly myths (i.e. you must sound lo-fi and crappy, you must avoid mainstream success, you must write songs about certain subjects) created by generational misinterpretations or the human tendenacy to lump in completely unrelated things.

Finally, a friend of mine once made a point that few musicians talk about selling out these days because a) that's considered to be a ludicrous, hypocritical “Generation X” thing that long ago became subject to parody and b) everybody wants to sell out anyway. One could argue that it's harder than ever to be a working musician these days, what with each and every market you can think of being uber congested, and that people have simply chosen to live comfortably (or, rather, strive to a point where they could quit their dayjobs) over some vaguely defined morals that the herd mentality made prominent in the first place.

Anyway, good piece and right on with Kimya Dawson. If Juno hadn't existed, thousands (like me) would never have been exposed to her wonderful music. Such is the nature of the beast.

It's all about marketability today. Any band that says it's not is, again, lying. Even the weird-looking lineup that is psychedelic-meets-pastoral Portland outfit like Blitzen Trapper is aiming up, eyeing that big(ger) time. Selling itself.

I don't know what you mean about a white reaction to hip-hop. Maybe this: Write an essay to call your own. SSv or another outlet would quite likely publish it. You are well said.

In closing, Kimya Dawson can go to heaven.

-Jon, I see what you are claiming by this sentence but I would have to claim that iTunes and all that doesn’t matter when it comes to the philosophy of Indie rock (maybe it spoils it). The point being that initially it was all about putting down what mattered regardless of the potential marketability that it will have. Frankly ‘indie rock’ strived in the realm that nobody will hear it- in some ways it was very exclusive and unless you caught the band live you were out in the cold.

It is obvious that mainstream’s uses of indie rock have been taken to entirely new level (you could call this “evolving”), with iPod commercials and a slew of flicks (Juno, Little Miss, Nick and Norah, Gossip Girls, 500 Days of Summer, etc.)
And like the music itself all of these things have been exploited to a level that lacks the edge and attitude originally found in Indie Rock. Everything is so ‘nice’ and vanilla (thank you Feist, Kimya Dawson, Sufjan, Shins), it’s all so boring, so polite – being a wallflower with vest and tie is sheik now.

Is this the “white reaction” to hip hop?

The kids will go on recording to CDRs in their basements, but maybe the question of our age becomes, If a track is fashioned in a dorm room but never climbs onto iTunes, does anyone hear it?

Surely mainstream capitalism plays its part. Think I see what you mean about Mr. Stevens (“Chicago” appearing in Little Miss Sunshine, eh). I won’t get into semantics here, but, be it death or rape or some other crime, what is deemed “indie” is forever evolving.

I keep finding myself backed into a corner regarding the phrase “indie” rock. At the Village Green Records Store I am bombarded by the wretched “Looks like all you guys carry is Indie Rock” phrase from customers – *Passer-bys*

I always find myself defending the fact that maybe only 10% of our stock is “Indie” Rock and than I have to continue with a sort of disclaimer/definition of the “Indie Philosophy”. This idea that an artist will create something regardless of anyone’s opinion – recording quality, vocal style, technique – all of these things are second to the sanctity of the music – the song.

I am surprised to see no mention of Built to Spill, Dismemberment Plan, Butthole Surfers, Yo La Tengo, Pavement, Red Krayola, Guided By Voices or any of the ‘original’ Indie Rockers that have now become the guiding light for what has become a ’style’ to so many. Arcade Fire…?… they were sort of on the cusp of the Indie Rock to mainstream explosion – to call them a veteran is funny. I don’t know how I feel about your phrase – “indie was always destined to die”. Really? There will be a day when kids stop cutting recordings to CDRs in their dorm rooms or basements? If anything “Indie” the philosophy or activity is what has strived, it is the fact that mainstream capitalism has stepped in and trampled all over your beloved ‘indie rock’ that dates back to Sufjan Stevens. I don’t think any of this has anything to do with a death of Indie Rock – I think a better statement would be:

The RAPE of Indie Rock.

I appreciate your write up but I obviously have a different opinion.

Hmm, fun question, Gail. I might time the sure-fire demise of grunge at about 1995, when Lilith-ready lovelies the likes of Tori, Alanis, Joan Osborne, and Natty Merch (Natalie Merchant, that is) commandeered the airwaves. The mid-’90s were definitely female singer/songwriter-dominated territory, and earth mother Sarah McLachlan took the reins from there for a time. (Thank God we were done with all that grunge and plaid and grease and sweat for a while … or was it perpetuated at Lilith, just in the femme version?) As all that was subsiding, with just one whimsical little ditty, Sixpence None the Richer beckoned to be kissed, and pop music was basically emasculated until the new century.

I’ll stop here before I start writing another essay…

Pieces like this make me think a) you have more writing talent in your pinky finger than I possess in that big mass floating between my ears and 2) why the hell are you not writing these pieces for more publications?

PS – You just nailed Nick’s take on indie music with this sentence:

An aside about those sordid TV montages set to music: You know you’ve seen a sign of the apocalypse, or at least the murder of “indie,” when the likes of Grey’s Anatomy and Gossip Girl appear to have their visceral fingers on the pulse of what is indie, of what is “good.”

PPS – Applying your same knowledge, do tell me what the date would have been on a similar piece dedicated to the end of the grunge movement? Just curious ….